Marilyn Manson

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hate to say it Pac-Man, but you seem to be one of the so called 'christians' in this area, that believe gossip, and judge people on their outsides. That's a shame.
When I got my first tattoo, I was codemned straight to hell by a lot of 'christians' in this area. Then I kept getting more and more, and people kept saying, you are going to hell, it's against the bible.
It really kills me to see all these 'christians' in this area, and all over the world, call themselves, christians for God, and they judge people based on their decisions in life.

Pac-Man, even if Marilyn Manson is a horrible person, and I mean horrific, you as a christian are still supposed to love him like a brother, and not judge the person, but offer love and support. Not bash him, and make him seem like an idiot to the world. </div></div>

I never said I did not love him. I hope he gets to heaven. I jsut put that out there for awareness not to condemn.

I'm still waiting for the location of the videos or how to get one.

And no, you can't just say "I am not answering" but then answering or replying again.

lol, your getting worked up over Brian. I often hold my tongue in this forum, but since it does apply to music, Ill chime in. I understand your concern with Brian, but let me tell you there are far greater things to fret over in the world. Namely, Islamic fundamentalists using a Mickey Mouse like character to further feed the hatred for Christians, Jews, etc.

Ill give you the benefit of the doubt though, but Ill also take the opportunity to let you into some people, bands and cultures who truly practice what they preach. Im sure you are not familiar with the scandanavian black metal scene. Bands such as VENOM, Mayhem, Atheist, etc. Nor the like of Merciful Fate, King Diamond, Athiest, Dark Funeral, and to its own degree the very popular Slayer. Marilyn "Brian Warner" Manson, is 10 years away from playing in charity golf tourneys with Alice Cooper. He is a puppet, a product of our very own society, his creedos of "I AM YOU" and "This is your world in which we grow, and we will grow to hate you" all the fabrication he creates is just that, a story, a fake one. The things he does, are about a 1 on a scale of 10 to the previously mentioned musical acts. The media and the American way have blow and created this "Anti-Christ" superstar. I say this knowing it first hand, gettin my hands on "potrait of an american family: at the tender age of 15. It was like any other band, it went greatly unnoticed, fast forward through the cover of Sweet Dreams and the niche that needed filling, the modern shock rocker. Just like Sabbath, Alice Cooper, Kiss and WASP, the progression of shock has evolved as well. I do not agree with how Brian conducts himself, but he truly is a product of our environment, the more publicity he gets the larger he grows, his hay day was in 1996-1999, you dont hear much about him anymore, until someone needs an easy target, then they choose him often, which only grows his pockets larger (which he wants) and exposes him to a new generation, because people say he is evil and bad, impressionable people rush to something that people say is wrong. After being exposed to Warner and his ways you quickly see the false in his story, read his biography (the long hard road out of hell) which he even devotes a portion to the myths surrounding himself. He is a rubber chicken, he is a trend, and the trend is dead, the trend is over.

If you want a real horror story, go do some reading on the band MAYHEM, many of these bands are widely succesfull on the underground scence and especially across the world, just because they are not on MTV you never hear about them. Anyone, who appears on TRL, I wouldnt consider an antichrist. Look into the scandanavian church burnings and the resentment based on hundreds of years of religious problems.

Anyway, Im out to have a turkey sandwhich/

Per Wikipedia, cause I didint want to type this out.

Mayhem was founded in 1983 by guitarist/vocalist Euronymous (Øystein Aarseth - then 'Destructor'), bassist Necrobutcher (Jørn Stubberud) and drummer Manheim (Kjetil Manheim). Euronymous concentrated solely on guitar following the hiring of vocalist Messiah (Eirik Nordheim) in 1985, with Maniac (Sven Erik Kristiansen) replacing Messiah. The band went on to record their third release, following two demos, Deathcrush, with Euronymous's newly formed label 'Posercorpse Music'.

By this time Mayhem's sound had developed from their initial death / speed metal influences to arrive at a sound more distinctive, dark and unique. Though maintaining the usual death metal obsessions in gore and violence, more sinister and nihilistic preoccupations with religion and paganism had emerged, influenced in part by Norse mythology, the philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche, Satanism (though Euronymous opposed the Crowleyan and LaVeyan brands of Satanism, in favour of a Christian perspective[citation needed]).

An initial release of 1,000 copies Deathcrush quickly sold out, and was later repressed in 1993, by the Posercorpse Music label, since having been renamed Deathlike Silence Productions as a joint venture with Øystein's Oslo specialist record shop Helvete. Øystein's plans for this new outlet included that it was to be "...like a black church in the future. We've thought about having total darkness inside, so that people would have to carry torches to be able to see the records."[citation needed]


By the summer of 1988 both Manheim and Maniac had left the band; Manheim, tired of 'the life', tried to get a 'real' job, Maniac, following a failed suicide attempt was confined to a mental institution. After two brief replacements, their positions were filled by Swede Dead (Per Yngve Ohlin, previously of Morbid), and scene drummer Hellhammer (Jan Axel Blomberg). At this point the all ready hazy history becomes even more muddled. Much of what is generally considered 'fact' has been either proven to be or is suspected to be rumour, legend and myth. The facts are few indeed.

Dead, as suggested by his stage name, was melancholic by nature and fascinated by death, decay, and darkness. He left even Euronymous, who by all accounts despised him, expressing concern for his mental stability. Despite this he was well liked on the scene, though regarded as a little naïve.

According to Bard Eithun "He (Dead) wasn't a guy you could know very well. I think even the other guys in Mayhem didn't know him very well. He was hard to get close to. I met him two weeks before he died. I'd met him maybe six to eight times, all in all. He had lots of weird ideas. I remember Aarseth was talking about him and said he did not have any humour. He did, but it was very obscure. Honestly, I don't think he was enjoying living in this world." [1]

Dead had, over time, carefully cultivated a notoriety for strange behaviour; once burying a set of clothes underground for weeks so that he could later wear the decaying rags on stage[citation needed]. He had kept a rotting raven in a plastic bag so better to "inhale the scent of death" before going on stage[citation needed]. Such morbid fascinations and antics further developed Mayhem's progressing musical atmosphere, and by this point the band's lyrics had moved increasingly toward Satanism, darkness, depression and evil. A focal point of gigs at this time was the planting of pigs' heads on stakes, center stage, and Dead cutting himself with a knife.

The new lineup with Dead and Euronymous was quickly to become the band's most notorious. After some live gigs in Norway and Germany (where Live in Leipzig was recorded), Mayhem started working on their first full length album: De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas (Lord Satan's Secret Rites), though by the time of its eventual release the two cornerstone members would be dead.


[edit] Classic line-up (1991-1993)
By April 1991, Dead was dead, aged 22, having suffered a self-inflicted shotgun wound to the head and several lacerations to the wrists, inflicted by a knife he had bought that day. Dead committed suicide in a house he was sharing in Kråkstad with the other members of the band, and left a note asking that they "Excuse all the blood."[citation needed] Other members of the band claimed it was more extensive, also saying "The knife was too dull to finish the job so I had to use the shotgun." Euronymous was first to discover the body, and took a series of photographs of the corpse, one of which was later stolen and used as cover art for the bootleg album Dawn of the Black Hearts.

According to Occultus, who briefly took position as vocalist after Dead's suicide: "He (Dead) didn't see himself as human; he saw himself as a creature from another world. He said he had many visions that his blood has frozen in his veins, that he was dead. That is the reason he took that name. He knew he would die.."[2]

The shells used had been sent to him by Bergen, Norway musician Kristian Vikernes (aka Varg Vikernes, Count Grishnackh; ex Old Funeral, sole member of black metal band Burzum, later convicted murderer of Euronymous). Euronymous was particularly cold and opportunistic about Dead's suicide; in interviews he claimed, speciously, that Dead had killed himself due to the rising popularity of death metal, the American movement Black Metal had risen against. Hellhammer claimed that Euronymous had taken pieces of Dead's brain and made a stew, in which he had put ham, frozen vegetables, and pepper: "He'd always said he wanted to eat flesh, so he figured this was an easy way." However, Euronymous later admitted that he had not actually eaten any part of Dead's body, though he had intended to. Euronymous also claimed to have collected and forged fragments of Dead's skull into necklaces, sending pieces to those he felt 'worthy' (amongst those rumoured to be in possession of such pieces are the members of Swedish black metal band Marduk & Abruptum). Hellhammer has said he made a necklace from Dead's skull fragments as well.

In 1993, Live in Leipzig was released as the band's tribute to Dead. Dead's suicide affected Necrobutcher so much that he left Mayhem, thinning the band's ranks down to two.

Music sample:
De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas (file info) "? play in browser (beta)
Problems listening to the file? See media help.
Later that year, the recording of Mayhem's upcoming album, De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas resumed. In Dead's and Necrobutcher's absences, Attila Csihar handled vocals, with Vikernes on bass.

Due to adverse media and police attention, Euronymous was forced around this time to close his scene focal point record shop Helvete. By this stage he owed Vikernes 30,000 NOK (for album sales and related costs), which he was refusing to pay back, a fact argued over publicly on several occasions[citation needed].

On the morning of August 10, 1993, Vikernes traveled, along with 21 year old Blackthorn (Snorre Westvold, of the band Thorns), the seven hours between Bergen to Euronymous's apartment in Oslo. They created alibis, en route, by getting friends to rent a video locally in their names. Upon arrival, Vikernes fatally stabbed Euronymous with a knife, although Vikernes claims that Euronymous had been planning to kill him for quite some time, and that upon his arrival to Euronymous' apartment, Euronymous had attempted to attack him first. The autopsy revealed that Euronymous suffered twenty-three stab wounds: two to the head, five to the neck & sixteen to the back. However, Vikernes claims that Euronymous fell onto pieces of broken glass, from a lamp shade broken in the ruckus, which he says, attributed to the multiple puncture wounds.

He then stumbled and broke a lamp on the wall, probably with his head or arm, and fell into the glass fragments - in his underwear. I ran past him and waited. Snorre was still upstairs, and I had no idea how he would react to all of this. Perhaps it was a set-up and he was in on it? Perhaps he too would attack me? I didn't know. When Snorre came running he looked very scared and I just let him ran straight past me. I realized he was not a part of this, so I asked him if he was okay (because he certainly didn't look okay). By then Euronymous was back on his feet. He looked resigned and said: "It's enough", but then he tried to kick me again, and I finished him off by thrusting the knife through his skull, through his forehead, and he died instantaneously. The eyes turned around in his head and a moan could be heard as he emptied his lungs when he died. He fell down to a sitting position, but the knife was stuck in his head, so I held him up, as I held onto the knife. When I jerked the knife from his skull he fell forward, and rolled down a flight of stairs like a sack of potatoes - making enough noise to wake up the whole neighbourhood (it was a noisy, metal staircase).

? Varg Vikernes, A Burzum Story

Though initial suspicion pointed towards members of the Swedish scene, Vikernes had left key pieces of evidence, including a blood stained copy of a recording contract (used as the pretense for his visit to Euronymous). Within days Vikernes was apprehended by police and charged with the murder. He has continued to record for his one-man project Burzum while in prison. With only Hellhammer remaining, Mayhem effectively ceased to exist.

That was a good post Yank, man that was hard to say comming from a RedSox fan...haha

For those downing Manson, first off, I would never make a peep about it, when you do, you are only padding his pocket!!!

Lets look at another artist, one which Brian could never hold a candle to in record sales, or popularity...One who has made a living off of a bad reputation, and constant media slams....Eminem.....

I don't even care that much for rap personaly, but Eminem is one of my favorite artists. Much like Manson he feeds off bad publicity, but on a whole next level...Teenagers relate to him for that resean, adults tell him to do something, he makes millions by refusing on a CD...

In 2000 he came out with a hit song named "The Way I Am"...It took a while but eventually i learned every word to it, and after that when I hear it I can't help but laugh.....Manson even joined him for a special version of this sond cause he knows he is in the same boat....

here's a bit of the lyrics:

And I am, whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the paper, the news everyday I am
Radio won't even play my jam
Cause I am, whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the paper, the news everyday I am
I don't know it's just the way I am

Sometimes I just feel like my father, I hate to be bothered
with all of this nonsense it's constant
And, Oh, it's his lyrical content -
- the song 'Guilty Conscience' has gotten such rotten responses
And all of this controversy circles me
and it seems like the media immediately
points a finger at me (finger at me)..
So I point one back at 'em, but not the index or pinkie
or the ring or the thumb, it's the one you put up
when you don't give a f**k, when you won't just put up
with the bullsh*t they pull, cause they full of sh*t too
When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up his school
and they blame it on Marilyn (on Marilyn).. and the heroin
Where were the parents at? And look where it's at
Middle America, now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class ci-ty
havin this happenin (this happenin)..
then attack Eminem cause I rap this way (rap this way)..
But I'm glad cause they feed me the fuel that I need for the fire
to burn and it's burnin and I have returned

And I am whatever you say I am!!!


So look at that the most popular artist in america, has one of the number one songs in the year 2000 by rapping about how the media has gave him everything he has to rap about, and if everyone would shut up, he would have nothing...

An interesting article (opinion) I found on Manson

Why Marylin Manson is Smarter than you

Why and how is he smarter than you? We'll get to that later.

Firstly, my attention was recently drawn to this article featured in "oddly enough".

Evangelists Pray for 'Evil' Marilyn Manson


MONTERREY, Mexico (Reuters) - Dozens of Bible-wielding Mexican evangelical Christians prayed for the soul of Marilyn Manson in a protest against a planned concert by the shock rocker.

About 100 people sang hymns and prayed outside local government buildings in the center of the northern city of Monterrey, where Manson, infamous for ripping up Bibles and invoking Satan on stage, is to play on Nov. 5.

"We are praying for him so that he can know God and become transformed," said demonstration organizer Arsenia Campos, whose daughter was killed last year by a young man who later said he was involved in a Satanic cult.

HOW RETARDED!

Firstly not only does nobody care but you're actually playing right into his hands. The more you idiots take to the streets the more publicity you're going to get. Why is that bad? Because the more publicity you get the more publicity HE GETS!

I can still picture you saying well good, people need to know about him, people need to realize how bad he is blah blah blah.

The more he is hated by middle aged conservatives the better for his career. Incase you haven't noticed... young people are massive consumers... and the millions of teens who hate their parents and want to dress in black or be homo just to piss them off identify with Manson. Angst ridden/anti conformist people are no longer a minority and I applaud, the likes of Manson simply because he does what he pleases and doesn't care how many old outmoded farts have a heart attack at the words "f*ck" and "hail satan" and fall off their wheelchairs.

There is no real liberty left, people can't do what they want. Manson is a freedom fighter using the not giving a sh*t stance as his weapon.

As for the guy who's daughter was killed by a satanic cult I have empathy. People seem to think it's hip to dig satan because most people are frightened of stepping out of line with their contradictory christian ideals. I don't support killings of any kind... and this murderer obviously was a sociopath who would have said anything just to shock people.

The reality of the Satanic religions is that they don't run around being evil and murdering people. Sure its a religion based on pure hedonism, but they don't even worship the devil... the devil is just used as a mascot because it shows people
that they are going to do what the hell they want.

So if you haven't already figured out why Manson is smarter than you I'll spell it out.

Chances are that Manson is a dull boring person just like you, or the guy that works at the post office. He has simply used an image to shock retarded conformist people into hating him and campaigning to ban him from doing anything. Kids love to do sh*t that other people think is evil. Young people like to challenge the ideals of their elders. THANK HELL FOR THAT! We'd still be in the dark ages. The world would still be flat! People would be waiting to get married before they do it!

If you really want manson to go away, tell your kids he's your favourite.. sing his songs in church. I know that you're too stuck in your ways to do that... and you fear the wrath of God but, it's a simple answer to a simple assed question.

The simple fact is the more you struggle the more you sink into manson's quicksand. He has played you and the media for fools and he is a billionaire and you are not.

That's why Marilyn manson is smarter than you.

(Link is http://www.madsophist.com/whymarilyn...erthanyou.htm)

And just for giggles, an interview

A few years back, rocker Marilyn Manson gained infamy for ripping up Bibles on stage. Now he says he plans to read the Bible from the stage. A community group called Citizens for Peace and Respect has called for Manson to skip the June 21st Denver stop of the heavy-metal tour Ozzfest. The organization's website says that Manson "promotes hate, violence, death, suicide, drug use, and the attitudes and actions of the Columbine killers."

In response, Manson has promised to "balance my songs with a wholesome Bible reading." The Bible readings, he says, will allow his fans to "examine the virtues of wonderful 'Christian' stories of disease, murder, adultery, suicide, and child sacrifice. Now that seems like 'entertainment' to me."

So the battle rages on. Perhaps no figure in modern culture is as famous or reviled for his use of religious imagery as Marilyn Manson. In this Beliefnet interview, in which Manson recollects childhood nightmares about the Antichrist and attending services by evangelist Ernest Ainsley, he shows that his dispute with Christianity is as much reaction as provocation.

The same can be said for his views of the media. In the wake of Columbine, Manson was attacked as an indirect cause of the shooting--even though it was later shown that the killers were not Manson fans. At the time, I worked with Manson on a piece he wrote for Rolling Stone magazine to defend himself. "A lot of people forget or never realize that I started my band as a criticism of these very issues of despair and hypocrisy," he wrote. He went on to attack the media's ghoulish fascination with the murders: "I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt."

Manson isn't naïve about the implications of changing your name from Brian Warner to Marilyn Manson--a conflation of his obsessions with sex, violence, and celebrity--or of making albums titled "Antichrist Superstar" (1996) or last year's "Holy Wood (In the Shadow of the Valley of Death)." He's well aware that people might conclude you're out to stir up trouble.

He's also aware that talking about the spiritual premises and implications of his music and his own complex religious upbringing in a setting like Beliefnet is to jump into a fiery furnace. What is perhaps most surprising about Manson is how deeply engaged he has been in religious topics, and how genuinely he wants to confront those who are likely to fiercely disagree with him. It's his idea of a good time.

Manson points out that his act only uses the tools made available to him by the media machine. "Marilyn Manson is a criticism of gimmickry," he once explained to me, "while being itself a gimmick."

The Manson critique includes a highly theatrical brand of bone-crunching, guitar-driven rock & roll and lyrics that harshly denounce the crushing effects of conformity. Rather than face life's confusing freedom and difficult choices, Manson says, people disown their humanity to become, as one of his album titles puts it, "mechanical animals."

It is Manson's fascination with violence (which, he points out, we get in a constant stream from many sources) that raises hackles. And it must be said that his message isn't always clear. His songs are laced with nihilism ("All your infants in abortion cribs/I was born into this/Everything turns to sh-t") and blasphemy ("When I'm God everybody dies").

The persona he assumes--he never breaks character in public--is a distinctly unsettling, sexually indeterminate blend of pancake makeup, bondage gear, lipstick, mascara, and religious imagery. The formula has sold nearly 5 million albums.

Though he has flirted with Satanism, his philosophy has far more to do with the radical individualism of Nietzsche or Ayn Rand than devil worship. Manson, a 32-year-old product of Ohio and Florida, is as gripped by religion, as Christ-haunted, as anyone I've ever met. Here he explains the origins of that ambivalent attraction.

During my visit to his Hollywood Hills home in 1997, Manson posed next to a gruesome crucifix for part of a filmed interview. Later, seated on his terrace with the grid of lights that is Los Angeles twinkling in the background, he did seem seductively satanic, tempting viewers with all the kingdoms of this world--or, at least, all the potential delights of L.A. "Maybe I should become a Christian and make them all happy," he said. "But I think if I found Jesus--which, I didn't know he was lost in the first place--I don't think he would be all that different from me."

Manson spoke to me recently about the current state of his soul from his home in the city of the (fallen) angels, Los Angeles.



What was your religious upbringing?
My first memories of religion were being taken to Episcopal church. My father was Catholic, but my mother, I believe, was Episcopal. So I sort of veered off into the watered-down version of Catholicism.

At the same time I was going to a nondenominational Christian school, where I was taught a very underhanded form of Christianity. For example, my Bible teacher would ask the class, "Is there anyone in the room that's Catholic?"? or "Is there anyone that's Jewish?" If there was no response, she would talk about how wrong those other religions interpreted the Bible. So at an early age, Christians already started to appear to me as people who believed that their interpretation of God was the only one that was right.


At least she didn't want to offend anyone...
Then I started to learn about Revelations, and they pumped a lot of fear about the end of the world into us. I used to have nightmares about the Antichrist--what would happen, where it would come from, and who it would be. The Christians also created this myth about the rapture, which if you look through the Bible, doesn't exist. There is a verse in the Bible that mentions that when Christ returns, he'll come like a thief in the night. So there was a movie they would play for us about the rapture called Thief in the Night. It was about everyone who fell prey to the lure of the Antichrist and got the mark of the beast would be left behind during the rapture. Cars would be abandoned, and people would be starving and killing each other. Everyone else would float up into heaven.

When I turned about 14, I developed a friendship with this guy whose mom was the secretary to Ernest Angley, the faith healer, who's very popular in the Midwest. He had a television show, and he was sort of like Liberace mixed with Jerry Falwell--very glitzy, very high-tech. He had a gold cathedral, one of the most decadent places I'd seen, until recently when I went to the Vatican-?that outdid it! But whenever I spent the weekend with my friend, I would have to go to these Friday night services that began at midnight.

That sounds wild.
It was odd because you were starting to fall asleep--it's the perfect time to brainwash people. People were tossing money onto the stage and speaking in tongues. It was very terrifying, like a horror show. It may have been what inspired me to become a rock musician!

So that was the point where I started to seek out other interpretations of God. And initially, when you rebel, you go for the obvious choices--heavy metal, Satanism. To me, Satan ultimately represents rebellion. Lucifer was the angel that was kicked out of heaven because he wanted to be God. To me, what greater character to identify with?

So initially I was drawn into the darker side of life. But it's really just human nature. I started to learn that everything that's considered a sin is what makes you a human being. All the seven deadly sins are man's true nature. To be greedy. To be hateful. To have lust. Of course, you have to control them, but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be trapped in a never-ending sin-and-repent cycle that you can't escape from. And you're going to be miserable. Ultimately, you'll be living in your own hell. So there's no need to worry about going to hell, because hell will be on earth.

What are your spiritual beliefs now?
A lot of people like to pass me off as a devil worshipper. I think that could only be true if I considered myself to be the devil, because I tend to be narcissistic and believe in my own strength and my own identity. I find God to be what exists in what you create. I make music. I think that that's coming in touch with God when I write a story, when I come up with a phrase or paint a picture, because that's about creating. Art gives people a reason to be alive. It gives people something to believe in. I think art is the only thing that's spiritual in the world. And I refuse to be forced to believe in other people's interpretations of God. I don't think anybody should be. There's no one person that can own the copyright to what God means.

When did you begin to encounter resistance because of your beliefs?
Well, resistance always will be the first thing to fuel the fire when you're young. That's how I learned about heavy metal music. They would have these seminars in Christian school saying, "This is what you're not supposed to listen to." So I immediately went out and bought it.

But when people rail against me for what I do, I absolutely can understand why they would. And I make that a part of my art. My art is not limited to the songs I create but also to the reaction it creates. I like to sit back and look at the whole thing as if it's a tornado that I'm controlling. It's creating chaos. When you create chaos, ideas are turned upside down, and everybody looks at things in a different way.

At the same time, I'm not simply out to shock people. I like to make people think. Since I chose the forum of rock music, people like to pass it off as simple, dumb, and childish, meant to trick teenagers into spending all their money on my records. But that's never why I got into it. I got into it to get laid, basically! No, I got into it to say what was on my mind, and I'm fortunate enough that people are listening. And it amazes me sometimes how many people are listening.

You've always been fascinated by the idea of Jesus as a figure that brings together images of violence, fame, and sexuality.
Absolutely. I've gone to great lengths to express it in my work that Christ is the first celebrity. The crucifix is the most successful piece of merchandise ever created. I think the image of him dying on the cross is very violent. It's very sexual. It's very phallic. And I think it's intended to be all those things. It's intended to make women want to be married to Christ and make men want to be like him. And to cause fear. Some of the scariest buildings I've ever been in are churches. They're beautiful in their ominous architecture. And I think that image has caused more pain and suffering than a swastika or the hammer and sickle. And those images are taboo, while the crucifix will always be considered holy. But think of how many people died in the name of that image.

You say you recently saw the Vatican. What was that like, and what do you think of the pope?
It's odd that you ask, because I have the pope's head, which someone sold me from a wax museum, sitting on the shelf in front of me, staring at me. I don't really have an opinion on the pope. It's strange that so many people look up to him, because if you actually believed Christ's teachings, it would be inappropriate to idolize somebody as much as you do God, and a lot of people look to the pope or the Virgin Mary in a way that's idolatrous. But I don't have a problem with him.

I was kind of overwhelmed by the Vatican. I was overwhelmed by the amount of gold that was used to create the building, while so many people complain about hunger and homelessness and the pain and sufferings of the world. And buildings like that are supposed to be what God intended. It doesn't add up.

Is there a particular religious figure that you most love to hate? Any you admire? You once said to me, "I see someone like Jerry Falwell as the same as Marilyn Manson in some ways. He's stating his opinion, expressing his beliefs, whether he really believes them or not. And it's a form of entertainment, because people pay him for it. Religion to me is entertainment."
I don't really have hatred for any of them. I find amusement in a lot of modern religious figures. And I wouldn't say I have respect for many modern religious figures. But I acknowledge what they're doing. And the ones that do it best I envy, because I see the sheer evil in what they're doing. You have to admire their cunning and their diabolical ways of manipulating the world. It fascinates me, ultimately. I just find myself fascinated with all religious figures throughout history.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/78/story_7870.html

One interesting thing I found as well.

A lot of the 'facts' come from Johnny Lee Clary's site

This is the header on his information

Before you begin reading this article, NO EMAIL IS RECEIVED, READ, or RESPONDED to pertaining to this article. No one can change the opinions of Johnny Lee Clary on Manson. IT IS A TOTAL WASTE OF YOUR TIME TO SEND EMAIL TRYING TO DEBATE THE FACTS PUT FORTH IN THIS PAGE. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GO TO ANOTHER PAGE. JOHNNY LEE CLARY IS TOO BUSY TO READ YOUR EMAIL ON MANSON, PERIOD! END OF STORY.

And just for reference from that site's info page:

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R0cketer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And just for giggles, an interview

A few years back, rocker Marilyn Manson gained infamy for ripping up Bibles on stage. Now he says he plans to read the Bible from the stage. A community group called Citizens for Peace and Respect has called for Manson to skip the June 21st Denver stop of the heavy-metal tour Ozzfest. The organization's website says that Manson "promotes hate, violence, death, suicide, drug use, and the attitudes and actions of the Columbine killers."

In response, Manson has promised to "balance my songs with a wholesome Bible reading." The Bible readings, he says, will allow his fans to "examine the virtues of wonderful 'Christian' stories of disease, murder, adultery, suicide, and child sacrifice. Now that seems like 'entertainment' to me."

So the battle rages on. Perhaps no figure in modern culture is as famous or reviled for his use of religious imagery as Marilyn Manson. In this Beliefnet interview, in which Manson recollects childhood nightmares about the Antichrist and attending services by evangelist Ernest Ainsley, he shows that his dispute with Christianity is as much reaction as provocation.

The same can be said for his views of the media. In the wake of Columbine, Manson was attacked as an indirect cause of the shooting--even though it was later shown that the killers were not Manson fans. At the time, I worked with Manson on a piece he wrote for Rolling Stone magazine to defend himself. "A lot of people forget or never realize that I started my band as a criticism of these very issues of despair and hypocrisy," he wrote. He went on to attack the media's ghoulish fascination with the murders: "I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt."

Manson isn't naïve about the implications of changing your name from Brian Warner to Marilyn Manson--a conflation of his obsessions with sex, violence, and celebrity--or of making albums titled "Antichrist Superstar" (1996) or last year's "Holy Wood (In the Shadow of the Valley of Death)." He's well aware that people might conclude you're out to stir up trouble.

He's also aware that talking about the spiritual premises and implications of his music and his own complex religious upbringing in a setting like Beliefnet is to jump into a fiery furnace. What is perhaps most surprising about Manson is how deeply engaged he has been in religious topics, and how genuinely he wants to confront those who are likely to fiercely disagree with him. It's his idea of a good time.

Manson points out that his act only uses the tools made available to him by the media machine. "Marilyn Manson is a criticism of gimmickry," he once explained to me, "while being itself a gimmick."

The Manson critique includes a highly theatrical brand of bone-crunching, guitar-driven rock & roll and lyrics that harshly denounce the crushing effects of conformity. Rather than face life's confusing freedom and difficult choices, Manson says, people disown their humanity to become, as one of his album titles puts it, "mechanical animals."

It is Manson's fascination with violence (which, he points out, we get in a constant stream from many sources) that raises hackles. And it must be said that his message isn't always clear. His songs are laced with nihilism ("All your infants in abortion cribs/I was born into this/Everything turns to sh-t") and blasphemy ("When I'm God everybody dies").

The persona he assumes--he never breaks character in public--is a distinctly unsettling, sexually indeterminate blend of pancake makeup, bondage gear, lipstick, mascara, and religious imagery. The formula has sold nearly 5 million albums.

Though he has flirted with Satanism, his philosophy has far more to do with the radical individualism of Nietzsche or Ayn Rand than devil worship. Manson, a 32-year-old product of Ohio and Florida, is as gripped by religion, as Christ-haunted, as anyone I've ever met. Here he explains the origins of that ambivalent attraction.

During my visit to his Hollywood Hills home in 1997, Manson posed next to a gruesome crucifix for part of a filmed interview. Later, seated on his terrace with the grid of lights that is Los Angeles twinkling in the background, he did seem seductively satanic, tempting viewers with all the kingdoms of this world--or, at least, all the potential delights of L.A. "Maybe I should become a Christian and make them all happy," he said. "But I think if I found Jesus--which, I didn't know he was lost in the first place--I don't think he would be all that different from me."

Manson spoke to me recently about the current state of his soul from his home in the city of the (fallen) angels, Los Angeles.



What was your religious upbringing?
My first memories of religion were being taken to Episcopal church. My father was Catholic, but my mother, I believe, was Episcopal. So I sort of veered off into the watered-down version of Catholicism.

At the same time I was going to a nondenominational Christian school, where I was taught a very underhanded form of Christianity. For example, my Bible teacher would ask the class, "Is there anyone in the room that's Catholic?"? or "Is there anyone that's Jewish?" If there was no response, she would talk about how wrong those other religions interpreted the Bible. So at an early age, Christians already started to appear to me as people who believed that their interpretation of God was the only one that was right.


At least she didn't want to offend anyone...
Then I started to learn about Revelations, and they pumped a lot of fear about the end of the world into us. I used to have nightmares about the Antichrist--what would happen, where it would come from, and who it would be. The Christians also created this myth about the rapture, which if you look through the Bible, doesn't exist. There is a verse in the Bible that mentions that when Christ returns, he'll come like a thief in the night. So there was a movie they would play for us about the rapture called Thief in the Night. It was about everyone who fell prey to the lure of the Antichrist and got the mark of the beast would be left behind during the rapture. Cars would be abandoned, and people would be starving and killing each other. Everyone else would float up into heaven.

When I turned about 14, I developed a friendship with this guy whose mom was the secretary to Ernest Angley, the faith healer, who's very popular in the Midwest. He had a television show, and he was sort of like Liberace mixed with Jerry Falwell--very glitzy, very high-tech. He had a gold cathedral, one of the most decadent places I'd seen, until recently when I went to the Vatican-?that outdid it! But whenever I spent the weekend with my friend, I would have to go to these Friday night services that began at midnight.

That sounds wild.
It was odd because you were starting to fall asleep--it's the perfect time to brainwash people. People were tossing money onto the stage and speaking in tongues. It was very terrifying, like a horror show. It may have been what inspired me to become a rock musician!

So that was the point where I started to seek out other interpretations of God. And initially, when you rebel, you go for the obvious choices--heavy metal, Satanism. To me, Satan ultimately represents rebellion. Lucifer was the angel that was kicked out of heaven because he wanted to be God. To me, what greater character to identify with?

So initially I was drawn into the darker side of life. But it's really just human nature. I started to learn that everything that's considered a sin is what makes you a human being. All the seven deadly sins are man's true nature. To be greedy. To be hateful. To have lust. Of course, you have to control them, but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be trapped in a never-ending sin-and-repent cycle that you can't escape from. And you're going to be miserable. Ultimately, you'll be living in your own hell. So there's no need to worry about going to hell, because hell will be on earth.

What are your spiritual beliefs now?
A lot of people like to pass me off as a devil worshipper. I think that could only be true if I considered myself to be the devil, because I tend to be narcissistic and believe in my own strength and my own identity. I find God to be what exists in what you create. I make music. I think that that's coming in touch with God when I write a story, when I come up with a phrase or paint a picture, because that's about creating. Art gives people a reason to be alive. It gives people something to believe in. I think art is the only thing that's spiritual in the world. And I refuse to be forced to believe in other people's interpretations of God. I don't think anybody should be. There's no one person that can own the copyright to what God means.

When did you begin to encounter resistance because of your beliefs?
Well, resistance always will be the first thing to fuel the fire when you're young. That's how I learned about heavy metal music. They would have these seminars in Christian school saying, "This is what you're not supposed to listen to." So I immediately went out and bought it.

But when people rail against me for what I do, I absolutely can understand why they would. And I make that a part of my art. My art is not limited to the songs I create but also to the reaction it creates. I like to sit back and look at the whole thing as if it's a tornado that I'm controlling. It's creating chaos. When you create chaos, ideas are turned upside down, and everybody looks at things in a different way.

At the same time, I'm not simply out to shock people. I like to make people think. Since I chose the forum of rock music, people like to pass it off as simple, dumb, and childish, meant to trick teenagers into spending all their money on my records. But that's never why I got into it. I got into it to get laid, basically! No, I got into it to say what was on my mind, and I'm fortunate enough that people are listening. And it amazes me sometimes how many people are listening.

You've always been fascinated by the idea of Jesus as a figure that brings together images of violence, fame, and sexuality.
Absolutely. I've gone to great lengths to express it in my work that Christ is the first celebrity. The crucifix is the most successful piece of merchandise ever created. I think the image of him dying on the cross is very violent. It's very sexual. It's very phallic. And I think it's intended to be all those things. It's intended to make women want to be married to Christ and make men want to be like him. And to cause fear. Some of the scariest buildings I've ever been in are churches. They're beautiful in their ominous architecture. And I think that image has caused more pain and suffering than a swastika or the hammer and sickle. And those images are taboo, while the crucifix will always be considered holy. But think of how many people died in the name of that image.

You say you recently saw the Vatican. What was that like, and what do you think of the pope?
It's odd that you ask, because I have the pope's head, which someone sold me from a wax museum, sitting on the shelf in front of me, staring at me. I don't really have an opinion on the pope. It's strange that so many people look up to him, because if you actually believed Christ's teachings, it would be inappropriate to idolize somebody as much as you do God, and a lot of people look to the pope or the Virgin Mary in a way that's idolatrous. But I don't have a problem with him.

I was kind of overwhelmed by the Vatican. I was overwhelmed by the amount of gold that was used to create the building, while so many people complain about hunger and homelessness and the pain and sufferings of the world. And buildings like that are supposed to be what God intended. It doesn't add up.

Is there a particular religious figure that you most love to hate? Any you admire? You once said to me, "I see someone like Jerry Falwell as the same as Marilyn Manson in some ways. He's stating his opinion, expressing his beliefs, whether he really believes them or not. And it's a form of entertainment, because people pay him for it. Religion to me is entertainment."
I don't really have hatred for any of them. I find amusement in a lot of modern religious figures. And I wouldn't say I have respect for many modern religious figures. But I acknowledge what they're doing. And the ones that do it best I envy, because I see the sheer evil in what they're doing. You have to admire their cunning and their diabolical ways of manipulating the world. It fascinates me, ultimately. I just find myself fascinated with all religious figures throughout history.

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You've always been fascinated by the idea of Jesus as a figure that brings together images of violence, fame, and sexuality.
Absolutely. I've gone to great lengths to express it in my work that Christ is the first celebrity. The crucifix is the most successful piece of merchandise ever created. I think the image of him dying on the cross is very violent. It's very sexual. It's very phallic. And I think it's intended to be all those things. It's intended to make women want to be married to Christ and make men want to be like him. And to cause fear. Some of the scariest buildings I've ever been in are churches. They're beautiful in their ominous architecture. And I think that image has caused more pain and suffering than a swastika or the hammer and sickle. And those images are taboo, while the crucifix will always be considered holy. But think of how many people died in the name of that image.(Quote in Rocks post about Marylin Manson)

Well, I cannot even make a comment on that... I guess since Manson says it is okay.. well then go ahead and do what you want and blame it on bad religious people. The big question is this: Will God accept this excuse?